B Dazzld ([info]b_dazzld) wrote in [info]worldofwarcraft,
2007-06-17 19:12:00
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Minimum Stats for Shade and Beyond? (x-posted)

Looking for good stats from raiders that have downed Shade. =) (thanks for the help so far!)

We had decent starter stats to go by but now we have newer 70's coming in right as we've hit Shade, so we're a bit at a loss to figure what kind of stat checks we should put in place.

Example of our main Raiders:

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Anand (typical Holy Priest)


http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Sahvii (Typical Warlock (minus my pet buffs etc) Know my +Hit is low =( but with my pet buffs my shadow damage/reg damage is over 1100 maybe 1200, and I am working on it lol.)

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Dorfl (only druid atm)

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Quirinus (prot warr)

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Abzuel (hybrid warr best tank, great dps)

New Raider:

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kargath&n=Rinnova (new Holy Priest need to know where he should be at)

Problem:

So, we have some really good gear and stats there, then like our new priest and some of our other new players...we need to find a middle ground that is acceptable for where we are in Kara.

http://wow.tachyonsix.com/armory/guildstats_out/kargath-no-remorse-70.html

Our general 70's stats sure some people were herbing/farming what not so may not be one hundred percent accurate.

Our prior barometer of stats below, I don't think they cut it any longer for where we are now, so I'm posting here to get a new idea of what our minimums should be =)

EDIT: These were the bare minimum for walking into Kara not the norm of what we have. We look at you, if you are below you don't even get to see the first boss.

------------ Druid ------------
* Balance
7,000 health
8,500 mana
550 +spell damage
6% +hit
15% +crit

* Feral (bear)
415 defense and Survival of the Fittest talent
20,000 armor
12,000 health
20% dodge
1,000 attack power
20% crit

* Feral (cat)
2,000 attack power
23% +crit
6,500 health

* Restoration
900 +healing
90 mp5 while casting
6,000 health
7,500 mana

------------ Hunter ------------
7,500 health
200 intellect
1,800 attack power (including Trueshot Aura if applicable)
5% +hit
18% +crit

------------ Mage ------------
6,000 health
8,500 mana
550 +damage
6% +hit
15% +crit

------------ Paladin ------------
* Tank
9,500 armor
450 defense
9,000 health

* Healing
6,500 health
900 +healing
80 mp5 while casting
8,000 mana

------------ Priest ------------
* Healing
1,250 +healing
100 mp5 while casting
5,000 health
7,500 mana

* Shadow
6,000 health
8,500 mana
550 +damage
6% +hit

------------ Rogue ------------
7,000 health
1,100 attack power
8% +hit
24% +crit
Pair of 71 DPS weapons

------------ Shaman ------------
* Elemental
7,500 health
8,500 mana
550 +damage
250 +crit rating

* Enhancement
7,500 health
7,000 mana
1,100 attack power
18% +crit

* Restoration
7,500 health
9,500 mana
1,100 +healing
90 mp5 while casting

------------ Warlock ------------
500 +damage
5% +hit
12% +crit
350 stamina
350 intellect

------------ Warrior -----------------
* Tank
490 defense
11,000 health
11,000 armor

* DPS
11,000 health
11,000 armor
1 attack power
1% +crit

----------Suggested Changes-----------
Fury warrior unbuffed in battle

9k health
1300 AP
10% hit
23% crit

Arms warrior unbuffed in battle
9k health
1400 AP
27% crit
3% hit

------------ Warlock ------------
500+damage (600)
5% +hit
12% +crit
350 stamina (over 8k health)
350 intellect
Tags: karazhan, raiding

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  • 44 comments

[info]tsunemori

June 18 2007, 02:42:38 UTC 4 years ago

Wowwww, seems like your players have very low health. Everyone should get above 8k, Aran's Pyro after sheep hits for 7k-ish, and you gotta add up an Arcane Missile or Frost Bolt from the spawns on top of that. Tanks are useless in this fight too, so tell them to put on their DPS gears, or sit out and swap with a DPS class.

In fact your whole playerbase seems to be massively undergeared. I'm a Paladin and I have 868 spell damage unbuffed. Your casters have between 500-600, and that's relatively small. An average Mage should have 700+ spell damage, push them above 1000 if you can.

Also, I had 1200 healing *before* Karazhan, your healers just seem like they're too lazy to work on their gears.

By the way, a Warrior with less than 5% hit is just embarassing. Have fun missing those Mortal Strikes.

[info]b_dazzld

June 18 2007, 03:11:52 UTC 4 years ago

Uhm we don't more than one warr that uses Mortal Strike if you'd observed the dps warr link I posted you'd have seen that. TO the other, they know their hit is low and they're working on it.

We have around 16 people who raid atm...most of our playerbase is alts outside of this...considering most of us are wearing some of the best pre-kara/during kara gear available...I don't consider the majority of us undergeared. Some are for certain, but they are also new raiders new 70's etc, which is why I'm here, want to know what we should be saying their min to join us at this point should be.

[info]tsunemori

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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[info]tsunemori

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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[info]lucasrahls

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

June 18 2007, 03:51:53 UTC 4 years ago

It's a bench mark and balanced by other things =)

What stats would you suggest in totality?

Our only lock with Ruin already has 17% crit, I don't have Ruin and run with 18% crit and our Aff lock has 10% crit and about ~1050 shadow damage. Myself and our other lock are working on our hit but we have 1100-1200 plus shadow damage.

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[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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[info]ghostlight

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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[info]ghostlight

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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[info]ghostlight

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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[info]erekose

June 18 2007, 03:45:15 UTC 4 years ago

Speaking as to the Enhancement Shaman (as I am one), your minimum health is a tad low, I'd look for a minimum of 8k at least, before buffs.

What's their +hit? 100 should be the minimum, with over 150 much better, and close to 200 ideal.

At 30% crit, the Enh-Shaman will practically chain flurry, so shoot for around 25% self-buffed (GoA, stat food/agi elixir) and the raid buffs should cover the rest.

Slow 1hand weapons are better then quick ones, as my Shaman class leader keeps harping at me. Over 2.0 weapon speed will see big returns on Windfury numbers.

Also, even with Blessing of Salvation, I'd have your Enh-Shaman stay away from any weapons/trinkets that proc Haste while raiding. I've found in my testing, purely empirical as it was, that the Haste proc from a Blackout Truncheon, plus Windfury, plus Flurry (which was not all that difficult to do) made my burst dps go through the roof, which yanked aggro and made me a dead Shaman.

Your numbers there for Mana and Attack power look good to me.

G'luck in Kara and have fun.

[info]cheatachu

June 18 2007, 15:23:55 UTC 4 years ago

I use a slow MH and fast offhand (since a slow offhand that's decent is hard to come by). I have no issues with dps, and my overall dps will suffer since I have to throttle my dps down when my ktm numbers come close to the maintank. Spirit weapons is *still* broken.

as I said below, hp isn't an issue if you know what you're doing. at 7k or 8k, most bosses will 1 shot you regardless. most trash you can hold if you do a large wf crit till the tank/OT takes it back.

[info]darthkurai

June 18 2007, 05:00:26 UTC 4 years ago

------------ Hunter ------------
7,500 health
200 intellect
1,800 attack power (including Trueshot Aura if applicable)
5% +hit
18% +crit

Your hunter should have at least 2000RAP and 19% crit (Marks, I'm assuming). It's not hard to achieve, really by the time you're at Aran.

------------ Warlock ------------
500 +damage
5% +hit
12% +crit
350 stamina
350 intellect

My lock is just in 5-man blues and he has +800 damage (self-buffed), he's been 70 for only 3 weeks.

All in all, everyone should be at 8000+ health buffed, a warlock should be at 10000hp buffed.

[info]bryneshrimp

June 18 2007, 16:02:37 UTC 4 years ago

BM hunters should be sitting at roughly the same stats, with maybe 1500 RAP and 20% +crit.

[info]lizzab

June 18 2007, 05:22:26 UTC 4 years ago

Rogue should be:
1400 AP+ (1500 pref)
150 hit rating minimum
20% crit

[info]saintinhell

June 18 2007, 14:14:19 UTC 4 years ago

Not to mention at least 8k health, which is kind of a good target for any class in Karazhan. Make you stress to your rogue that stacking crit is not as good as stacking hit for PvE.

[info]b_dazzld

June 18 2007, 05:56:54 UTC 4 years ago

Thanks for the assistance so far!

[info]cheatachu

June 18 2007, 15:18:22 UTC 4 years ago

* Enhancement
7,500 health
7,000 mana
1,100 attack power
18% +crit

As an enhancement shaman, and one that generally takes one of the top 3 in a full kara run, these stats are good, maybe looking a little too much though. Unfortunately, pre-kara/arena gear, getting 7500 hp/7k mana w/good offensive stats is difficult. I sit just under 7k hp with >7k mana and >1300 atk power with 21% crit. As long as I watch KTM (a must have if any shaman plans on raiding), and watch the aoe's, i'm fine. I've never seen arans sheep or pyro in all the times I've done him (which, admittedly hasn't been too much). As long as the raid does it's job, and moves when they need, hp won't be an issue for a shaman.

Also, if that shaman is DW'ing (which they should be for pve), Should add a +hit req in there too. Since we get a bit from talents (assuming they do the normal build).

As for the resto req.

* Restoration
7,500 health
9,500 mana
1,100 +healing
90 mp5 while casting

everything is fine, and easily reached, but the mp5 is MUCH too low for shaman, our main deterrant in casting is our regen, mp5 is key here of course. What's needed for raiding? not sure, but it should be a bit more than 90, I sit around 1200 healing and 230 mp5 in my healing gear (this is still in my enhancement build). So if they're resto, their healing will be pretty high, but the mp5 should be higher than listed.

[info]mfirefly

June 19 2007, 14:59:34 UTC 4 years ago

Along the same lines as the Warlock comments before, shadow priests should have +700 shadow damage. Also, the 8,500 mana requirement for them is a bit high. If they have a good amount of damage gear, they will have a good amount of mana regen through VT and will not need that much mana. I would put the mana requirement more at 7,200 or so for them.

[info]b_dazzld

June 19 2007, 15:22:05 UTC 4 years ago

Thanks!

[info]eeepeeep

June 20 2007, 06:38:09 UTC 4 years ago

Not true, 8k is higher then a good shadow priest will have, unbuffed at least.

[info]mfirefly

June 20 2007, 17:46:13 UTC 4 years ago

Unbuffed? I'd be curious to know how much shadow damage/spell damage s/he would be sacrificing to get that.

[info]eeepeeep

4 years ago

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[info]mfirefly

4 years ago

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[info]eeepeeep

4 years ago

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[info]pinwiz

June 19 2007, 22:03:42 UTC 4 years ago

I dunno. As a Holy Priest, I think the setting are a bit strict. I know that I didn't have the mana regen when I entered Kara but had no problem downing the Huntsman.

[info]b_dazzld

June 19 2007, 22:44:04 UTC 4 years ago

True enough, but we are also at Prince/Netherspite now too So I'm kinda glad we included that ^.^ We did lower and up the requirements for shadow priests actually--on some sage advice from the posts I made ^.^

[info]pinwiz

4 years ago

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[info]eeepeeep

4 years ago

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[info]b_dazzld

June 20 2007, 17:02:25 UTC 4 years ago

Final Stats


------------ Druid ------------
* Balance
7,000 health
8,500 mana
550 +spell damage
6% +hit
15% +crit

* Feral (bear)
415 defense and Survival of the Fittest talent
20,000 armor
12,000 health
20% dodge
1,000 attack power
20% crit chance

* Feral (cat)
2,000 attack power
23% crit chance
6,500 health

* Restoration
900 +healing
90 mp5 while casting
6,000 health
7,500 mana

------------ Hunter ------------
6,000 health
200 intellect
1,575 attack power (1,425 for Beast Mastery, 1,500 for Survival)
5% +hit
18% crit chance (23% for survival)
500 agility (only applicable for survival)

------------ Mage ------------
6,000 health
8,500 mana
550 +damage
6% +hit
15% +crit

------------ Paladin ------------
* Tank
9,500 armor
490 defense
10,000 health
200 +damage

* Healing
6,500 health
900 +healing
80 mp5 while casting
8,000 mana

------------ Priest ------------
* Healing
1,250 +healing
100 mp5 while casting
5,000 health
7,500 mana

* Shadow
6,000 health
7,500 mana
600 +damage
6% +hit

------------ Rogue ------------
7,000 health
1,400 attack power
150 hit rating
20% crit chance
Pair of 71 DPS weapons

------------ Shaman ------------
* Elemental
7,500 health
8,500 mana
550 +damage
250 +crit rating

* Enhancement
8,000 health
7,000 mana
1,100 attack power
100 hit rating
25% crit chance

* Restoration
7,500 health
9,500 mana
1,100 +healing
100 mp5 while casting

------------ Warlock ------------
675 +damage
~3% +hit
~10% +crit
450 stamina
350 intellect

------------ Warrior ------------
* Protection
490 defense
11,000 health
11,000 armor

* Fury
9,000 health
1,300 attack power
10% +hit
23% crit chance

* Arms
9,000 health
1,400 attack power
3% +hit
27% crit chance

After we were able to get Prince to 1 percent on the first attempts on him, even with half the members at these or near these starting stats, we decided to not be too harsh on our requirements until it's shown we really need it.

[info]eeepeeep

June 20 2007, 19:24:55 UTC 4 years ago

Re: Final Stats

Those stats for shadow priests still aren't bad as a general starting guidline, I suppose. I just hope you guys understand that a shadow priest showing up with 1k +shadow damage and 6500 mana will have MORE lasting power then one with 700 shadow damage and 7500 mana. Not only that all the mana users in their group will have more, as a good shadow priest provides around 150ish mp5 while casting to their whole party.

If you've got a shadow priest who is constantly running OOM but have 900+ shadow damage they need to understand that they should be chugging super mana pots constantly and using a smart spell mix to keep their mana high. (basically they should be able to keep dots up and chain cast mindflay FOREVER without their mana really dropping at all and without chugging super mana pots, but this causes a drastic loss in sustained DPS)

[info]b_dazzld

June 20 2007, 21:23:29 UTC 4 years ago

Re: Final Stats

I'd agree and we aren't rigid if someone came with 1k S damage and 6500 mana, I doubt we'd say no ;-)

[info]kaziel_fateseer

June 21 2007, 21:37:35 UTC 4 years ago

Re: Final Stats

If I may, you might as well up the armor aspect of a tankadin's. Not saying that you should be more stringent, but the reality is if someone's gotten to the point where they can break 10k health, have 490 defense and 200+ spell damage, they probably have upwards of 11k armor, w/o devo aura. I know I did when I was hitting up Karazhan to start.

[info]b_dazzld

June 21 2007, 23:16:06 UTC 4 years ago

Re: Final Stats

thanks!!

[info]wildrice13

June 21 2007, 21:06:00 UTC 4 years ago

What you have listed for Druids in Bear form, armor-wise, is very hard to get pre-Heroics. I say pre-Heroics only because I've yet to do them, not because I don't think I should have to. Anyway, I feel that I tank quite well (Dendris on Alleria, if I have Darkstorm Tunic on that's my cat gear and not representative, silly Armory) and while I feel like I'm not quite Kara-ready, I'm getting close.

Replacing the three pieces of Heavy Clefthoof will bring me to around 16k armor. Getting more without dropping the other stats you have listed... not sure how to do it. Nevermind trading in any resistance gear as appropriate.

On the other hand, you only list 10k for warrior tank armor. You list 490 defense for them, so is that where you see the trade-off happening. You list 415 defense for bear, and once I get Heavy Clefthoof I'll have at least 430 (depending on the gems I socket, it might be 450 or more).

I hope this doesn't come across as whining or the like; I know my guild will be taking me on Kara when we get it going regardless. But I noted that as of this posting you didn't list any Druid tanks in your core team, and so I thought maybe your gear listing for them was in some way biased or possibly uninformed. If you believe otherwise, by all means tell me why.

[info]wildrice13

June 21 2007, 21:41:14 UTC 4 years ago

After reading the bottom of your post, I see you have posted some suggested changes. So here's some concrete numbers for you. Take them with a grain of salt since I'm not basing this on experience but rather on some theorycrafting and on availability, but I do think I'm remaining fairly stringent...

* Feral (bear)
450 defense and Survival of the Fittest talent
17,000 armor
13,000 health
20% dodge
1,000 attack power
20% crit

And possibly some attention to resilience, though I'm not comfortable enough with the stat to give you any number estimate on that one.

[info]b_dazzld

4 years ago

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