natasha (nulz) wrote in worldofwarcraft,

Help with a friend?

Not so much a game issue, more an issue with a friend who's rejoined WoW after a break. Basically, they don't/can't go through the game themselves and keep leaning on myself and my boyfriend to help him progress.

The guy in question, A has played WoW on and off since BC came out. He's a very indecisive guy. He'll come back to WoW full of enthusiasm, ready to start working on his "new main", only to delete his toons a few months later. This has happened a few times and for that reason, I don't have the patience to help A out when he comes back to the game. He came back a month or so ago, rolled a warrior which is now 90 and he also has a rogue at max level. He was all, "this warrior is gonna be my main, gonna gear it up as a tank and get into normal SoO", okay, fine. My boyfriend spends hours with him helping him gear up with timeless stuff, helping him choose a nice transmog, and we run some LFR with him on BF's tank and my healer (quick queue). A few days ago he decides he doesn't want to tank anymore. In fact, he doesn't like melee DPS either so he wants to roll a ranged class or a healer...but he changes his mind and decides to stick with his warrior.

Another problem I have with A is that he's not very aware of what's going on. He runs LFR with no glyphs or enchants etc, in tank spec when he queues as DPS, does about 20k DPS and gets mad when someone calls him out on it, stands in stuff and just...doesn't pay attention. There's only so many times I can mention these things because he's quite defensive about it, but he's not improving. My boyfriend knows this but says he wants to keep helping him out so he learns the raids but there's only so much he can do. He's also way too nice and doesn't want to offend or upset him by telling him that he's...not great.

I need help with dealing with this guy. We've invested quite a lot of time in helping him level and gear up but he hasn't said thank you once, just "eh, yeah, warrior is okay but I think I'll reroll, meh". I needed help with Dragon Soul the other day and asked him if he'd like to come along to tank and he ignored me, which I find plain rude. He says he wants to raid with us and whatnot but I don't see much commitment or willingness to learn the fights and it's like he wants us to do everything for him. Like I say, he's played since BC and is really knowledgable about classes and the game in general, so it's not like he's new to it. I'm just reluctant to keep carrying him through but I'm never gonna be like "DUDE, YOU SUCK, LEARN TO PLAY!!!". Any ideas? Or even if you've been in a similar situation, I'd like to hear how you dealt with it!
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A) If he can't decide what he wants to main, that's fine. But don't waste any time helping him gear up through quick LFR queues unless it is what you want to do.

B) If he doesn't want to improve, he's not going to improve. People are either competitive in this game or they are not. But I wouldn't waste time on someone who won't even invest in glyphs.

Sounds to me like you are dealing with someone who is taking advantage of you and your partner. I'd stop wasting so much time on him. It'll just drag you and your partner down.
It's frustrating because he always says how he wants to get into raiding, how he just needs to gear up and he'll be set etc etc...but his actions are the total opposite. He's tried every class out, decides at around level 20 that "X class is crap", deletes the toon and makes a new one. I've said that all classes have their good points and bad points and there's no perfect class but I guess he sees it differently.

My partner offered to run through LFR so he can get a feel for the instances and he's a former hardcore raider so he doesn't mind too much. A has always said how he's ready to progress with raiding which is why we've tried to help, but I think you are right, the dude is taking advantage. I wouldn't mind helping him get his toon started with gold, bags etc, but it's been all take, take, take, recently.
Yeaaaaaaaaaaah. He's obviously not taking raiding seriously and because of that, I wouldn't waste the time on it.
If he stands in stuff, can't be bothered to gem/enchant, etc gear isn't going to make him ready for raids.

Play with him socially, but other then that, I would back off. He's really not interested in playing other then extremely casually no matter what he says.
I understand why he doesn't want to waste gold on gemming/enchanting gear that he'll likely replace in a few weeks, but I think it's worth doing as a DPS boost. Someone yelled at him in LFR for doing very little damage (which is annoying enough, such is LFR) and if he invested a little in his gear, he'd do way more. His attitude is "no point in making a real effort for LFR" but I'm not sure how/why he'll suddenly do a 180 if he starts doing flex or normal.

Since I posted this, he says he actually does want to try tanking. So yeah...I don't know anymore.
Honestly, if you're in all 496 gear from the isle, if you don't want to spend to gem and enchant, you can at least reforge, and there should be no issue without doing 60k single target. That said, if you can't invest even a few hundred gold (which, let's face it, isn't that much at all anymore) for even baby gems and subpar enchants, then you don't want to raid.

As for tanking...yeah, even for LFR, you need to have your gear in some kind of order. Your friend sounds really selfish tbh - he's in there with 24 other people, he needs to pull his weight, no matter what role. I think you are right, he's not going to pull a 180. If you stand in stuff in LFR, you're gonna stand in stuff in regular raids.
Some people just like leveling more than end-content. Just leave him be and let him join if he wants.
You say he's played on and off since BC. Depending on how much he played, if he ever got a character to max level, if he raided at all (or even did heroics in BC), if he was carried through easy WotLK raids, etc., his knowledge of the game can be of varied levels. In BC you had enchants that you had to see an enchanter to get and gems were raid dropped only; both were very expensive and if you weren't raiding high end you likely didn't have them, or at least you certainly didn't have the best. Reforge didn't come around until Cata. Accessibility to those things has changed considerably. Not to mention talent overhauls, ability changes, stat priority changes, etc. Just because he's been playing that long doesn't mean he has an understanding of what is needed now to raid. He may know the basics of each class, but enough changes frequently in this game that unless you keep on top of patch notes you're not going to be knowledgeable about classes for long. In BC there were hard fights. Those fights have nothing on normal mode fights of MoP. Raiding has changed a lot with each expansion, even LFR has changed between DS and now. Fights in LFR are harder, people have to pull their weight, you can't have 3 people pull you through everything like you could in DS. If he's not willing to put in the effort, he's not worth it. You can't spoon feed him everything. You can shove glyphs down his throat, supply him some cheap gems and crappy enchants and he'd probably still keep doing what he's doing. Until he's ready to put in effort, I wouldn't continue giving him queues. If he wants to switch mains again, let him, but let him know you won't help him until he's 90, full TI geared/glyphed/enchanted. If he really wants to raid, then settling on one class is his best bet.
I've had a similar friend but she was actually worse because she wouldn't bother to learn her class.

She was a rogue. When you inspected her she was wearing spirit gear and a mix of leather and cloth.
She would ask people to help her run old BC content when she was max level for CATA. Most people told her she really shouldn't need help with that at max level because they didn't know she wasn't even wearing the right gear. So she would get upset that nobody wanted to help her and go pout.
I tried to help her with her gear and she just couldn't understand and kept asking me to just roll for her. I explained I couldn't follow her around and tell her what gear to take all the time so she needs to learn it.
She would need on lock boxes because "I'm a rogue and the only one who can open them so they are MINE!! *RAGE*"
Even when we would offer to help her she would ignore the offer. On more than one occasion she would suddenly log off when people said "Sure.. I can come help you." But she never seemed to have connection issues when there was nobody available to help and would then complain about it.
When we did help her, she would literally stand in whatever dungeon, etc and let us do all the work. She would not try to fight ANYTHING. Just follow us.

It is really frustrating because you like them as friends and you want to help them out but the help is forever. The only solution is to play for you. There comes a point where you just have to tell your boyfriend, "If you want to help him.. fine. But I'm done."

When we did this with our friend, she eventually stopped playing the game.
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head - the help is forever. I'm not sure what more we can help him with. There are so many great fansites out there with information on his class and I dunno what's stopping him from checking them out. We ran a few dungeons with him when he hit 90 and he'd just stand around not doing much, then he'd complain that gearing through heroic dungeons is "crap" because the stuff he needed would never drop.

Now that I think about it, I've never heard him actually say thank you. My boyfriend has suggested ideas to gear him up/find a nice transmog/get a few achievements, and A just says yeah cool we'll do it. He doesn't take the initiative to do it himself.
You shouldn't have to do anything. If he actually wants to get better and isn't just taking advantage of folks trying to help, he'll utilize the vast resources available to him via Google or Bing.

Also, he shouldn't be surprised if folks are going to call him out for noob'ish behavior when he's willingly doing it.
Your friend sounds like a parasitic leech, and based upon what I've read here he's going to get torn a dozen new orifices after his second or third tanking wipe when people take a second to inspect his gear and achievements - scrub is as scrub does.

If you like him in RL then renegotiate to spend time w him there. I usually use a sports team analogy - even LFR is akin to a very casual pickup game where proper gear, shoes or skates properly tied, honesty, good sportspersonship, knowledge of the written rules and unwritten social expectations are _still_ expected and recommended.
I think he is too. I've mentioned it above but never had so much as a "thanks" from him. I'm not bothered about giving gold to a friend to get them started but earlier he said something that made me laugh - "I don't like spending gold" - I guess he means the gold we gave him from the guild bank because I'm pretty sure he hasn't made any. Eh. As for LFR, I agree, and think it's people like him who give LFR the bad rep that it has.